Are you a member of Plowboys nation?  We are!  As part of our ongoing interview series, we recently sat with Todd Johns, one of the founding members of Plowboys BBQ to talk rub, competition barbecue and more.

Smoke In Da Eye asks:  For whatever reason, I can't throw a nickel these days without hitting a fan of Plowboy rubs.  When did you first come up with your now legendary Yardbird rub?

Todd Johns replies:  Yardbird Rub would be nowhere if it wasn't for our cheerleaders.  There were a handful of people who were instant fans and helped spread the word.  The Plowboys Nation has grown way beyond where I thought it would be.  I can't get past it at times.  This has been a fun ride.

 

The roots of Yardbird rub came from a cooking class that Randy and I took when we first got started in 2001.  During this class, we created rubs for each of the meats we cooked.  The first rub was for chicken.  There were 27 other teams at that class.  At the end, we submitted our entries to be judged.  We got first in chicken.  For years it was just called "our chicken rub".  The recipe hasn't changed since that day and was our only original recipe.   

 

At the beginning of 2007, Randy and I wanted to see if we could bottle something that would sell out of the vending trailer.  With only one original recipe, that is where we started.  Twenty samples were sent to BBQ cooks literally across the country.  I sat in my living room measuring out 2 oz sandwich bags of rub like a drug dealer.  It was laughable.  Ironically, Andy Groneman got one of only two samples sent from the original test batch.  At the time, Andy and I hadn't met but knew each other a bit through the BBQ Brethren forum.  He gave me some good advice related to the grind of some of the spices that really shaped what the product is today.  Now, Andy is one of the best friends I've had in my life.  We talk daily and cook together as much as we can.

SIDE:  I was fortunate enough (thanks to the fine folks at BBQAddicts.com) to sample a bottle of your latest endeavor, Bovine Bold.  Having actually consumed a good deal sans meat and even more on some beef ribs, I think you've topped Yardbird.  What was the biggest challenge when trying to best such a well received poultry rub?

TJ:  The goal wasn't to best Yardbird.  The goal was to prove, at least to myself, that what we did wasn't a fluke.  The goal was to create a viable product that people would want to use.  So far, so good. 

 

The initial investment into Yardbird was under $1000, which was a gamble no knowing if we'd sell anything.  I did my own artwork, got my spices wholesale from a friend, and did the mixing and bottling myself.   The original batch size was seven shakers at a time.  Now we buy from a co-packer in 500 lb batches every few weeks.  Doing the initial math, I figured if we could sell about 250 shakers in the first year at retail price, we could almost make our money back.  Otherwise, we'd have some cool gifts.  Well, the first year was closer to 1000 shakers.  Bovine Bold was an opportunity to use lessons learned from the experience getting Yardbird on the market to get it right this time.  There was a lot of learning in the Yardbird launch.  I'm an IT guy.  I know very little about product development, marketing, distribution, sales, etc.  You learn best by doing, I guess.

 

It took exactly a year to develop Bovine Bold and another 60 days to get it finally bottled.  I cooked 20+ contests using variations of the rub over that year.  The final product needed to be something I would use.  Any product that has my name on it, has to be quality.  There are too many products out there, and way too many bad products, to just add to that noise.  Though very different, Bovine Bold, ironically, came from Yardbird Rub.  It started with the same basic formula and worked outward from there changing one thing at a time.  Brisket was the main inspiration, so it needed to have big flavors and sustain a long cooking time.  White sugar was replaced with brown sugar which is less likely to burn.  Brisket loves black pepper and salt, so both were increased.  Some of the flavor elements changed to enhance the beef flavor and not mask it.  Two ingredients people typically can't place are cinnamon and worchestershire powder.  Just a couple of tricks I've learned from some classic BBQ joints here in Kansas City.

 

SIDE:  And am I premature to assume a Plowboy sauce is in the works?

 

TJ:  Sauce... what can I say other than it is a whole different arena from spices.  Two sauces have been in the works since the end of the competition season in November.  One is a general purpose sauce and the other is a fruit based sauce.  It has been a challenge.  A lot of sauce has gone down the drain.  The biggest challenges are the variety of ingredients to chose from and the evolutions of a sauce as it cooks and cools.  I'm learning that a sauce can't be judged as you prepare it.  The flavors and viscosity all change as it cooks and cools.  I have to resist the urge to change the recipe on the fly because the sauce will taste different once the it cools. 

 

I'm seeking help from other sauce makers to help my learning curve and have to admit that part of the problem is my own expectations.  You can ask my close friends and they'll tell you that I'm my worst critic.  Finding something I'm happy with is the first hurdle.

 

A third rub is also in the works.  This will be a general purpose hot rub with some really cool ingredients.  I'm working with some seasonings R&D professionals to come up with some new ideas.  I'm really excited about this one.

 

After the new rub and sauces, I want to shift a bit from traditional BBQ to wild game.  I get a lot of questions and requests for seasonings for wild game.  I've got some experience there, but have a lot to learn.  As a foodie, it will be fun to dive into a whole new genre.


SIDE:  So enough of the sales talk.  Where'd the Plowboy name come from and when did you decide to start cooking competitively?

TJ:  Randy is my wife's oldest brother, one of my best friends (Andy would be the other), and the original other half of Pork Pullin Plowboys.  Randy gets to take credit for the name.  He is a pork producer (fancy name for Pig Farmer) and associated with the name Plowboy.  The rest was just a play on words.  We got started in 2001 cooking a couple of non-KCBS contests.  These last two years, I've cooked about 20 contests per year, while Randy joined up for only a third of those.  He's been focused on his catering and vending business which takes a lot of his weekends away from competing.  We both use the Plowboys BBQ name and logo for our own BBQ related businesses.  The official name of my business is Plowboys Foods, LLC while Randy's is Plowboys BBQ, LLC.

SIDE:  Last year was an amazing year for you all but I'm sure you're not resting on those checks and trophies.  Care to share your list of top 3 "Have to accomplish" competition barbecue goals?

 

TJ:  Wow, really the last two years have been amazing.  I still pinch myself every now and then.  There are so many things we've been able to accomplish that I want to do again, but here are a few for the BBQ Bucket List. 

 

#1 - First place finish in Chicken.  I've had multiple first place finishs in every category but never in chicken.   Maybe it is the rub I'm using.

 

#2 - Win a Grand Championship with Randy.  He's never been there when we've won.  Of course he jokes that there's a reason for that, but Randy is a great cook.  We're going to cook more together this year and winning one with Randy will be huge when it happens. 

 

#3 - Cook in the Butt to Butt.  Pork has been our thing.  This year, we get to go to Shannon, IL for the Butt to Butt XI invitational in July.  Having been to Shannon last year for the contest, I'm so excited to get invited this year.  As a pork cook, it is an honor.

 

Though The Jack is definitely on the list somewhere, it is very hard to get there from Missouri and Kansas where we typically compete.  If ever invited, I'll do whatever it takes to get there, but there are other, more attainable goals that are worthy in their own rite.

SIDE:  And what's the deal with that Andy guy?  Is he slightly off or what?

TJ:  I've got pictures of how "OFF" Andy can be, but the reality is that Andy and his wife Kim are probably the most giving people I know in the BBQ sub-culture.  They do so many big and little things they do all of the time for teams and individuals.  They are great examples of what the spirit of the BBQ community is all about. 

 

Many of the highs of 2008 competition BBQ were with Andy.  At the end of the year, we exchanged our top 10 moments of the year.  My #1 was the second Grand Championship (Burlington, KS) that we won together, and it had nothing to do with the awards.  Awards were just the icing on a fantastic weekend.  To set the scene, we both worked that Friday so we arrived at the contest about six hours later than we normally would, got checked in, set up, prepped meat, lit smokers, and got meat on in about two hours.  We then headed downtown to eat dinner at a local bar/restaurant and had a great meal.  Saturday morning we found a local radio station that played great classic rock with no commercials.  We talked about music, life back in the day, and cracked jokes all morning.  It was fun just cooking and laughing.  We ended up taking six ribbons out of six categories with two 1sts, two 2nds, and a 6th.  Hanging out with my friend was more of a highlight of that weekend than the awards, although the awards were pretty fun, too.  That contest sort of defined the year for me.

 

It is not easy to cook with another "head cook".  It takes the right personalities.  A key for us seems to be that we put a lot of pressure on ourselves, but not each other.  We trust in the other's abilities and give latitude.  Randy and I work together in this way as well.

 

SIDE:  As a fellow outdoor cooking blogger, you try a lot of interesting recipes.  What the one failed experiment that you just can't get out of your mind?   What'd you still like to try?

 

TJ:  Dude!  Why do you have to go there? There are so many dishes that have been a disaster.  I've tried to forget them all. But, one does stick in my mind.  To me, beans come out of a can and not dried in a bag.  Wanting to change that, I wanted to make a big batch of chili with beans that I hydrated myself.  What a disaster!  The worst part is that this batch of chili was supposed to feed guests coming that evening to a BBQ contest.  I think we ordered pizza. 

 

Most of my dishes are classic comfort foods: shepard's pie, pot pies, and other rich foods.  I'm a real Diners, Drive Ins, and Dives kind of guy for that reason... comfort food rules!  Other than wild game, I want to learn more about Asian foods, flavors and ingredients.  For Westerners, true Indian and Pac Rim food is mystical, I think.  It isn't this water down version of Chinese that we get on every corner.  Another huge interest I have right now is "plating".  Making something look as great as it tastes is a skill and an art.


SIDE:  Final question.  I've watched your boys grow over the past couple years and see that they're getting into the family hobby.  We're very much the same, I think, when it comes to bonding and educating children through food.  Care to share a few personal words on the subject?

TJ:  Kids want role models.  They see dad cooking and want to be involved.  BBQ is such a part of their vocabulary that it surprises me at times.  Michael has been to many contests.  He's now five and very excited to cook Kid's Q.  Everyday, Michael will talk abou it to anyone who will listen.  We don't push it on them.  This is something that they have an interest in.  Again, I think kids want role models, time with mom and dad, affirmation, and to try things that seem "grown up".  There's no doubt, however, that BBQ will be replaced with girls sooner than I'll be ready for.